Cork Flags and symbols

greatbleddyman
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Re: Cork Flags and symbols

Postby greatbleddyman » Wed Aug 16, 2017 3:48 pm

I didn't tell - I asked.... but I wouldn't think much of someone if I had to ask them to stop flying a white supremacist symbol at a hurling match.

As I said above If suddenly the Cork crest because a white supremacist symbol then either
A-fight to reclaim it or
B - say, jesus lads this isn't worth it lets change the badge.

Symbols change their meanings - if a worthwhile symbol was co-opted by theses Nazi's then yeah maybe take a stand but lads in all fairness its the symbol of a rebellion in another country an another century that represents racist views. Maybe I'm dense but how can that be worth it.

By the way did you know that more Corkmen fought for the union than in any recorded foreign war - even more than in the great war.
stfrancis
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Re: Cork Flags and symbols

Postby stfrancis » Wed Aug 16, 2017 3:54 pm

greatbleddyman wrote:I didn't tell - I asked.... but I wouldn't think much of someone if I had to ask them to stop flying a white supremacist symbol at a hurling match.

As I said above If suddenly the Cork crest because a white supremacist symbol then either
A-fight to reclaim it or
B - say, jesus lads this isn't worth it lets change the badge.

Symbols change their meanings - if a worthwhile symbol was co-opted by theses Nazi's then yeah maybe take a stand but lads in all fairness its the symbol of a rebellion in another country an another century that represents racist views. Maybe I'm dense but how can that be worth it.

By the way did you know that more Corkmen fought for the union than in any recorded foreign war - even more than in the great war.



Proudly, without ignorant irish men subjugating natives around the world the empire would never have grown. Biggest mistake we ever made leaving it.
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Dorcha
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Re: Cork Flags and symbols

Postby Dorcha » Wed Aug 16, 2017 4:35 pm

greatbleddyman wrote:I didn't tell - I asked.... but I wouldn't think much of someone if I had to ask them to stop flying a white supremacist symbol at a hurling match.

As I said above If suddenly the Cork crest because a white supremacist symbol then either
A-fight to reclaim it or
B - say, jesus lads this isn't worth it lets change the badge.

Symbols change their meanings - if a worthwhile symbol was co-opted by theses Nazi's then yeah maybe take a stand but lads in all fairness its the symbol of a rebellion in another country an another century that represents racist views. Maybe I'm dense but how can that be worth it.

By the way did you know that more Corkmen fought for the union than in any recorded foreign war - even more than in the great war.


But I have to point out GBM that a Cork supporter would not regard it as a white supremacist symbol, so why should you assume that he would? The world is not as black and white - and as soulless - as many would like it to be.
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Podsy
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Re: Cork Flags and symbols

Postby Podsy » Wed Aug 16, 2017 4:56 pm

Twohands wrote:Sometimes you can be perfectly within your rights and still get it wrong. I am loathe to censor people too and as someone who has been going to Cork matches since I was knee high I have to admit when I was younger and didn't fully understand the background, I got a bit of a laugh out of the idea of us having a 'rebel' flag flying in the face of Dublin's Irish yankees. Now, however, the time has definitely come to put the flag away.

The difference between this flag and the rising sun is that they are not (rightly or wrongly) seen by most people as a symbol of the atrocities committed by people acting under them. The Confederate flag was always a symbol for what the south stood for and whatever your views on taxation, the views on slavery are something that no right thinking person should be willing to be associated with. Even if you can get over that, the flag has been adopted by hate spouting groups in the same way as the swastika was adopted by Nazi Germany. The fact that the swastika means many different things in some countries is irrelevant. It is a symbol of hate and I'd hope no Cork fan would fly it. The Confederate Flag is quickly assuming a similar status and for that reason I think it is beyond time to let it go.

The sad thing about this is that it will take up more air time than some of the truly anti democratic moves made by the CCB executive in the last few weeks. Let's bury the side show flag and focus on the real debat.


Agree with this post and the last thought in particular.
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tipp-ex
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Re: Cork Flags and symbols

Postby tipp-ex » Wed Aug 16, 2017 5:55 pm

Twohands wrote:Sometimes you can be perfectly within your rights and still get it wrong. I am loathe to censor people too and as someone who has been going to Cork matches since I was knee high I have to admit when I was younger and didn't fully understand the background, I got a bit of a laugh out of the idea of us having a 'rebel' flag flying in the face of Dublin's Irish yankees. Now, however, the time has definitely come to put the flag away.

The difference between this flag and the rising sun is that they are not (rightly or wrongly) seen by most people as a symbol of the atrocities committed by people acting under them. The Confederate flag was always a symbol for what the south stood for and whatever your views on taxation, the views on slavery are something that no right thinking person should be willing to be associated with. Even if you can get over that, the flag has been adopted by hate spouting groups in the same way as the swastika was adopted by Nazi Germany. The fact that the swastika means many different things in some countries is irrelevant. It is a symbol of hate and I'd hope no Cork fan would fly it. The Confederate Flag is quickly assuming a similar status and for that reason I think it is beyond time to let it go.

The sad thing about this is that it will take up more air time than some of the truly anti democratic moves made by the CCB executive in the last few weeks. Let's bury the side show flag and focus on the real debat.


Your last line here is so apt dhá laimh. Its amazing how the CCB can so bring up a national issue that suits their agenda.
Their luck will run out some day

Edit - its not often in disagee with Podsy and twohands but i do on this occasion. And im the first to admit that ive no idea of the political implications of it, i dont even know who won the US Civil war and did it make a difference? My closest association to it is Clint in the Good the Bad and the Ugly and that music. I presume im like 95% of Cork fans

Fly the lag!
Turenne
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Re: Cork Flags and symbols

Postby Turenne » Fri Aug 18, 2017 9:41 am

Is there any actual justification for waving this flag - one that is eulogised by neo-nazis, white supremacists and the KKK and represents slavery, mass lynchings and racism - other than obstinacy and wilful ignorance?

Why can't people just wave the actual Cork GAA flags and their variations and in the process avoid association with some of the most hateful groups in the world, avoid completely unnecessary controversy and avoid animosity towards Cork GAA? Is there any actual good reason to fly this flag? The reasons 'because we can' and 'because I can't be arsed watching the news or reading a history book' seem like awfully shite.
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Dorcha
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Re: Cork Flags and symbols

Postby Dorcha » Fri Aug 18, 2017 11:07 am

Turenne wrote:Is there any actual justification for waving this flag - one that is eulogised by neo-nazis, white supremacists and the KKK and represents slavery, mass lynchings and racism - other than obstinacy and wilful ignorance?

Why can't people just wave the actual Cork GAA flags and their variations and in the process avoid association with some of the most hateful groups in the world, avoid completely unnecessary controversy and avoid animosity towards Cork GAA? Is there any actual good reason to fly this flag? The reasons 'because we can' and 'because I can't be arsed watching the news or reading a history book' seem like awfully shite.


Why can't people just leave other people to make their own decisions? As someone said regarding the same subject on Politics.ie, "Why cant other people do what I want them to do?"
Turenne
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Re: Cork Flags and symbols

Postby Turenne » Mon Aug 21, 2017 2:02 pm

Maurice Banks
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Re: Cork Flags and symbols

Postby Maurice Banks » Thu Aug 24, 2017 9:02 pm

Seeing as confederate flags are due to become a thing of the past in Cork even though thousands of miles separate us from the southern states, news that ESPN have stood down Robert Lee as a commentator for certain games,( in case his name upsets people due to the part his namesake played in the Civil War), has apparently had commentators on Leeside feeling nervous.
Extensive research, involving a google search, has revealed there was no General McCarthy but there was indeed a General Palmer who played a major role in the conflict. True.
Fortunately he fought for the Union to abolish slavery so unless any white supremacists are unduly upset by this we can look forward to Paudie's commentary again next February for the League.
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Dorcha
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Re: Cork Flags and symbols

Postby Dorcha » Thu Aug 24, 2017 9:27 pm

"Madness, madness, they call it madness!"

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